I wonder how much longer you will think that. I wonder how many floods and fires and destruction of property and loss of lives will take place before you realize we're out of time, and there is no time for moderation. Half a century ago, yes. Now? We need to be on a war-time footing (not go to war with others), and that means we have to limit our use of things as much as possible.

I don't care about ideology. I care about the fact that consumerism and business are destroying our envrionemtn and we will be extinct within 80 years.

Please revisit this thread in 5 years, if you haven't dieid a flood or a fire or been a victim of the next epidemic. Have you heard that South Africa has discovered a new Covid variant? And it has already spread far and wide.